(Stefanie Miles, a young adult and a lifelong member of Incarnation Parish in Washington, D.C., was interviewed for the Black Catholic Voices series on Feb. 10, 2021 by Mark Zimmermann, the Catholic Standard’s editor.  Stefanie Miles works as  a teaching assistant for the fourth grade at St. Mary of the Mills School in Laurel, Maryland. At Incarnation Parish, she serves as a lector and as a catechist teaching religious education to high school students who have received the sacrament of Confirmation, and she coordinates youth and young adult ministry there. Miles is a member of the Cursillo movement in the Archdiocese of Washington and is also a Tolton Ambassador, one of a group of lay people across the United States promoting the cause for the canonization of Venerable Father Augustus Tolton, the first recognized Black Catholic priest ordained for the United States (Father Tolton died in Chicago in 1897 after serving as a parish priest there). Stefanie Miles is also a student at the University of Maryland’s Global Campus, studying social science and psychology. This interview took place at Incarnation Church, near the baptismal font where she was baptized as an infant. The following is a transcript of the interview, and at the end of that, there is a link to the video of the interview.) 

How would you summarize your faith journey as a Catholic who is African American?

Stefanie Miles – “My faith journey as an African American is quite interesting, in my opinion. First, obviously I am a Black woman, and that in and of itself is a journey, and then being Catholic and Black at the same time, is one that is challenging at times. But with faith and everything, and the Church helping me guide my path, it’s beautiful. It can be beautiful, and although sometimes it’s challenging, it is a beautiful journey.” 

At Incarnation Parish in Washington, Stefanie Miles serves as a lector, a catechist and coordinates youth and young adult ministry there. (CS photo/Mihoko Owada)

What have you learned from the witness of faith of other Black Catholics, how has that shaped your life?

Stefanie Miles – “From witnessing other Black Catholics in my life, especially my parents, it starts with them at home, and including my brother, my grandparents, I’ve had great examples of Black Catholics and how we should look and sound and what we should do. And looking around in my parish, we also have excellent and beautiful witnesses. They, including myself, have endured struggles and anything between racism, physical ills, being taunted going to different Catholic events, but they’ve always set a example of walking in grace, and I strive to do that on a regular basis. Walking in a state of grace, a sense of grace, giving grace. Just providing that energy, that love to others even if it’s not reciprocated and given back to me.

“My mother always encourages me to always think before I speak and sometimes I don’t do that, but I think before I speak because it’s when you’re talking to someone else you’re ultimately just saying something that you want to say to yourself. So when I speak, words are important and that’s another thing my parents have instilled, that words are important, words are powerful, and that’s why you’ll lend that grace even if you’re not receiving it.

“The roots in this church, the roots of my faith, it started here. Well, it started in my home, but I was baptized here in the same year I was born. Like, right over there, the baptismal font is over there. 

Stefanie Miles said she learned enduring lessons about faith and grace from her family and from the members of Incarnation Parish. (CS photo/Mihoko Owada)

“The deacons, especially Deacon (Thomas) Forbes was very important and integral in my faith formation. He actually helped me, between Deacon Forbes and (Josephite) Father Joe Del Vecchio, of course, but they both helped me overcome my fear of the dark, because when you go to the confessional, the confessional is relatively dark. 

“So Deacon Forbes being a big, huge giant of a man with a soft heart and strong hands, as a seven-year-old, he gently took my hand, which probably looked like this, with my little hand in his, and he walked me to the confessional. And he’s like, ‘Don't worry. God’s in here.’ And I’m like, ‘Huh?’ (He said again) ‘Don’t worry. God’s in here,’ and so he turned on the little light which made it a little lighter, but not much for someone who is fearful of the dark. 

“He walked in, and we went through the whole process of (the Sacrament of) Reconciliation. Just the words and things like that, ‘Bless me Father.’ He said, ‘See, do you feel Jesus? Do you feel God?’ and I am on the other side of the box. And he’s like, ‘Oh, so, how do you feel?’ I said, ‘I’m still, I’m still nervous, because it’s dark, but I’m glad that Jesus is in here, and He was holding my hand.’ He’s like, ‘Jesus was holding your hand?’ I guess Jesus was holding my hand. 

“So, that's something that I always will share, my experience with Deacon Forbes personally, but his faith journey with his becoming a reader, as he was kind of illiterate and he did not learn to read until a very late age in his life, has always inspired me, that if you need to do something, if you want to do something, if you have to do something, just go ahead and do it. And with God's help you can achieve anything that you need, your heart’s desire. 

“And he became a great deacon at this parish, one that you cannot turn a corner here and not see something that he has touched, and I’m not meaning just the physical touch, although he’s probably fixed something in every corner of this church. 

“But the St. Vincent de Paul pantry, he helped with that, and he delivered food when they had a delivery type system, or the church picnics and cookouts and things. He would be participating in that. I mean you couldn’t miss him because he was like 20 feet tall, but he was an angel on Earth, and I’m just glad that he’s in my team of guardian angels in heaven with my dad and my grandparents. So, I’m just glad that I have a pretty awesome heavenly team. Let’s just go with that.”

Are there instances of racism that you have experienced in society or the Catholic Church that remain painful memories?

Stefanie Miles – “Sadly, most of my personal experience of racism has happened within the Church. So just a small one, I was participating in a Mass or an event, and it was held at the Basilica, and I think they even announced all participants come to this portion, and when I walked – this was years ago – when I walked to the area that they said was the holding area for the participants, I was scolded. It was not like, I  wasn’t dressed like a tourist or anything like that, I felt like I was dressed, not to go to Mass but beyond my regular Mass apparel, and one of the people there was like, ‘What are you doing here? This is for the participants only.’ And I spoke like this, ‘My name is Stephanie Miles, I’m a participant,’ and that was one.

“And also when people measure my amount of Catholic-ness because I’m Black, and they say my Catholicism is more inspired by, or it’s not Catholic, you're more this. The person’s exact words, in this instance was, ‘You’re Pentecostal.’ Nothing wrong with Pentecostal. I have Pentecostal friends, and I love them dearly, and yes, I do praise the Lord with them, just like I praise the Lord with my Catholic friends, but to say that I’m not something because I’m also Black, that’s just pretty racist. 

“Or challenging my knowledge of something because I’m Black. I’ve been Catholic all my life. I teach CCD. I read. I’m an avid reader. If I’m not with children, teaching or working, I’m probably in a corner somewhere reading. So the challenge and if I actually speak up to say that I know something, not saying that I know everything, but pretty much, just believe me when I say something like this, this and this, (like) the Trinity is the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit. 

In the interview, Stefanie Miles recounted a racist encounter she experienced while chaperoning Catholic students at the March for Life. (CS photo/Mihoko Owada)

“I know God has put me on this Earth for a reason, and I know the challenges that I face, also including when I went to the March for Life, as a chaperone with my students at St.  Mary’s, a crowd of white men surrounded me. They were young, they were probably in their 20s, if anything, and they surrounded me, taunting me, saying that I didn’t belong there. They actually said out their mouth that I was an abortion gone wrong, and I was with my kids, and I made sure they were out of harm’s way, of course, but to experience that, coming from the rally which was very spirit-filled and even though I got stares there by certain groups of people, that kind of befuddles me a bit, actually. 

“They were saying things that I would never repeat, because again as my father told me words have power. So, I'm not going to repeat those, but the one that really stuck out was that I was a failed abortion attempt.  Well, one, my parents wouldn’t have done that. One, because they were married and they wanted me so much, so much. I was the second born and that was something they wanted. They wanted two children, one for each hand type-thing, they were very cheesy, bless their whole hearts. 

“I slowed up on purpose, because I did not want my children, my students, to see (that). (They asked,) ‘What happened to Ms. Miles?’ ‘She fell back.’ After I kind of got distance (from them), and a parent realized that Ms. Miles wasn’t here, because I was the end of the line. So, she turns around. And that would be the parent that I would probably (say), ‘Hey, I need help,’ and she would probably bust through the doors type thing or call the correct people (to help).”

What has been the greatest blessing for you, of teaching at a Catholic school?

Stefanie Miles – “My experience of working with children especially the blessings of being a teaching assistant at St. Mary of the Mills, every day I know that there’s going to be something that I learn. I strive to learn something new every day anyway, because that’s what actually my great-grandmother taught us, that a day without learning something is a day wasted. So, I try to learn something new every day, and fourth grade never fails you with that one. 

“I’m not saying I learn every day their lessons coming from them, but every day, I know I’m going to get something, whether to make me chuckle or to make me think, and they’re always inquisitive. So that forces me to learn, to research, to reflect and honestly sometimes censor, because they say some quirky things… They are quick with their questions, too. So, it’s a blessing that I learn something new from them every day.  

“It’s a blessing that their parents have trusted me with such a very important part of their lives. It’s a blessing that Mr. (David) Freeman, that’s the lead teacher of fourth grade, that Mr. Freeman teaches me so much, and I get to teach him so much, too. So it’s like a consistent dialogue between us, and it's beautiful. It’s a blessing that I’m with such kind co-workers. Like, I know I can call on them, any of them… I can literally call any of them and say, ‘Hey, I need help.’ Or ‘Hey, can you pray for me?’

That’s actually one of the reasons why I took that job, because, one, I didn’t have to take off for holy days, I’m at a church already, and, secondly, that I can openly pray out loud, in public, pretty much anywhere, not to say that I would censor myself at my previous jobs, but I find it that it is a blessing to be able to do that, and I’m getting to teach and show fourth grade and other students different ways of praising God by the way that I praise God. So that’s a blessing in and of itself.”

The fourth graders she teaches at St. Mary of the Mills School in Laurel are a great blessing in her life, Stefanie Miles said. (CS photo/Mihoko Owada)

What is the most important thing you hope to teach your students at your Catholic school? 

Stefanie Miles – “I hope that they know that they can thank God for everything, and ask Him for anything. 

“Right now, we’re making our way through the Ten Commandments, and when we get to something and we have an example, and they’re like, ‘That means that? You mean, when I read the Bible with my family, or we talk about what the reading was, that’s kind of still keeping the Sabbath?’ Yeah, yeah. So it’s always good that we can bring it down, not really bring it down to their level, because they have a very high level of intelligence, fourth graders do. 

“They are in a different realm. You just have to be ready, but they always have such an absorption of knowledge, and they always want to know more, and they’re caring, and they help me to care more as a person. Don’t tell them I said that, though. They are a blessing!” 

What is your reaction to the nationwide demonstrations for racial justice that have happened since this spring in the wake of unarmed men and women of color being killed by police?

Stefanie Miles – “Racial protests that have happened last year and (are) still going on, they actually were going on before last year, …I know we're going to probably mention the pandemic later, but the pandemic made it possible for everyone to stop, look and listen.

“So, when that occurred, Black Lives Matter, those type of movements, they’ve been existing for a long time. Like I can’t give you all the names, because you have the NAACP, you have different fraternities, they have spoken up on these points, but the fact that people were at home and they had to be at home, except for those who decided that they wanted to step out and let their voices be heard, the fact that those people …we were all at home, more than likely all watching TV or livestreaming something. We had no choice but to look. 

“That’s something that I feel, like the pandemic is very unfortunate, so don’t think that I think that ‘Oh yes, it was great, it was like a mini vacation.’ No, but that was a time where we had no choice but to look at the flaws in this country, because we were all at home sitting and watching it. 

“So unfortunately, it had to come be that way, that people are getting sick, people are dying, but the fact that words like ‘sundown towns’ are still in Black people’s vocabulary. ‘Sundown towns’ are when you go to, you know you’re at a place, and if you’re a person of color,  you want to be out of there by around 6:00 when the sun goes down. Otherwise, people are at liberty to harm you.

“There are places where you just wouldn’t go and not just because, not to say there’s not any places in predominantly Black neighborhoods or anything like that, that you don’t go after a certain time, but there are certain places you just don’t go. It’s like the unspoken, ‘whites only sign,’ the unspoken, ‘coloreds only here.’ You don’t use those terms now, but that aura, that feeling is still in some places. Yes, and even in D.C., right now.

 “When I saw the cases, the videos of George Floyd, and the news reports on Breonna Taylor, and (before them) Philando Castile, Tamir Rice. Again, we need all day to list them. I stopped breathing myself. 

“It was a visceral reaction, because I saw my uncle in his face. I saw my brother. I saw, in George Floyd’s face specifically, I saw all of them, and the fact that I have uncles that are on medication, and so if one of them forgot to take it or like maybe they’re running into the store to get their prescription and if their symptoms arose, they would appear to be inebriated. They would appear to be like cognizant and (have) this awareness of what was going on. I mean, when I’m on Benadryl, take a Benadryl because I have allergies, I’m not myself. 

“So if a person can perceive me as a danger, and they don’t take the words that I’m saying out of my mouth, because the man specifically said that he could not breathe, and they didn’t take any kind of care to relieve him of the pressure, and they could see that he wasn’t moving. 

“Like, when one of my friends didn’t realize, this friend does not really follow the current events, he just kind of has tunnel vision, and when I explained to him what was happening, he kind of shrugged it off at first. He’s a Black man, he was like, ‘Oh, it’s another Black man dead.’ The fact that we have to say it like that, just to survive, it’s just ridiculous, and it’s sad.

“I am near tears right now, well, probably in tears right now, but seeing the face of, I can perfectly copy and paste one of my uncles or my brother or his friends or anyone in that space. I literally couldn’t breathe with him. 

Stefanie Miles cried as she remembered seeing the video of George Floyd's death after a Minneapolis police officer knelt on his neck. She said she saw the face of her family members in his face. (CS photos/Mihoko Owada)

“Finally, I took the time, I built up my strength and I prayed while I was watching it, because I knew what was going to happen, because it was on the news. So when I finally watched it, I cried for an hour, like non-stop cried. I mourned for him as if he were my uncle, as if he was my brother, as if he was my father. 

“Sometimes people fail to see that people are people, whether they look like you or not, they are people. Good people, bad people, that should not have happened. Even if he punched your daughter in the eye, that should not have happened, by any means. That should not have happened.

“With Breonna Taylor, that (als0) should not have happened. That could have been me. That could have been me. That could have been my goddaughter. That could have been my cousins. 

“So when I see these things, and I warn my younger cousins, because I don’t have younger siblings, when I see those things, and I see the Philando Castiles, who was a registered gun owner, I warn my younger cousins, just to be careful. The fact that we have to have the talks (about) how to go out in public. Like my parents had the talk, not necessarily so much with me, but with my brother, because you have to act a certain way once you go in public.

“Well, I’m a little loud, just by nature, but we’re not loud. We’re not violent. The only violence my brother has is because he’s a black belt in karate, but would he use that on the street, unnecessarily? No, but the fact that he is a Black man, he has to present himself in a certain manner to be unintimidating. Now, my brother is 5’5” and under 200 lbs. He’s not intimidating. You probably should be more intimidated by me than him, and I’m 5’, 100 to whatever (pounds), but the fact that we have to, men, they have a sit-down talk. 

“Most families, many families they have the sit down talk... you know, the birds and the bees and how to treat people and how to read. But then you have the additional conversation with people of color, and I know my friend, my Latino friends, and some even Asian friends, they had this talk too, because they have the darker complexion, and they have the talk with their children of how to present themselves in public. George Floyd, he presented himself as a person running into the store, getting whatever he had to get, and then instead of slapping on the hand, giving him a ticket or citation, he lost his whole life.” 

People of color – African Americans, Latinos and Native Americans – have been hardest hit by the health and economic impacts of the coronavirus pandemic. What does this say about our country, and what should our country do about this? 

Stefanie Miles – “No doubt that the pandemic has affected everyone, but especially the disparities among the people of color, African, African American, Latino and Asian communities, and Native American communities, got to represent my 3 percent. Just like the other incidents of the racial unrest, we all know that the healthcare system is flawed, that people should probably have some sort of access to just basic health care, the fact that most people don’t have a primary health care, they get a cold, they have to go to the emergency room. 

 “This pandemic has opened additional eyes that the country needs additional care. Put those mandates in place where everyone will have access to some sort of care. I am not a   politician.  I’m not even a wordsmith, but I read enough. Everyone should have some sort of care, I’m not saying the elective surgeries, where you don’t have to have those, (I’m) not saying those type of things, but basic care. 

“The fact that if someone has coronavirus, and, yes, I do have family members who have been affected by that, an uncle and a cousin and personal friends of my parents. They all had health benefits. So they were pretty much taken care of for the most part. They fell under their parents’ insurance or they worked and  their employers gave them some sort of health benefits, but those people who can’t even get access to like a flu shot or know to go get a free flu shot from CVS or what have you, or that’s their only source of health care is the few free things that are happening within the community. They go to those free events like Catholic Charities holds with the dental (clinics), and things like that. The fact that they can only get health care by way of those things. That’s just sad.

“That’s sad, and I know universal healthcare is happening within other countries  in the world, and they’re well-developed, and they seem to function fine. I’m sure there’s some sort of tax bracket, taxing things that will have to go into play, where the American citizens will have to probably do something of that nature, but I feel like as Catholics we should arrange and fight (for that), those pro-life rallies should include that, healthcare for all.

“Now, if someone just wants to deny it, saying, ‘No, I don’t want that.’ That’s up to them, or (if they say), ‘I have insurance from my employer,’ you can deny it, that’s cool, but having that access to basic stuff, preventative care, would help those disparities within those people of color, because those are usually the most affected that don’t necessarily have those things at hand.

“Fortunately, my uncle, my cousin, they survived. I see them on social media. My mom talked to my uncle on the phone the other day. So, they are okay, because they also, even though they may have pre-existing conditions, they were under the care of a physician. They were lucky, they are the lucky ones, they have that, but not everyone does.

“So just having that available to people, health (care) – (and also addressing) food deserts, getting grocery stores in food deserts. That’s important. Like we’re down the street from a food desert, I don’t know if you’re aware of that. These communities often come in contact with those type of things. Then you want to bring into the pandemic circumstances, people losing their jobs, people losing their second jobs. Like, they may still have their first full-time job, but not the second, and many people can’t survive off of just one full-time job these days, especially with the minimum wage being where it is.” 

Cardinal Gregory has noted that while the nation confronts the coronavirus, it must also address the virus of racism. What do you think the Catholic Church should do as an institution to combat racism, and what do you think individual Catholics should do?

Stefanie Miles – “Combating the virus of racism within the Catholic Church, it has to start with the individual, because we are the Church. It’s not the buildings, it’s not the bishop, it's the people within, the members of the Church. We are the Church, and we have to remember that. 

“We say we love Jesus, we say we follow Jesus, well Jesus hung out with everyone. I think that’s actually why I am Christian, because Jesus literally hung out with everyone, and He talked to everyone, and He ate with everyone. Actually, that’s why I’m Catholic and Christian, because Jesus ate and partied with everyone. So, if we can’t sit down and eat with everyone, you’re not doing something right. You have to show love to everyone you meet. 

Jesus's example of loving everyone offers a path for Catholics to take in combating racism, Stefanie Miles said. (CS photo/Mihoko Owada)

“The good book says you love your neighbor, and I always mention this to my students, whether it’s the fourth graders or the high schoolers or just anyone, that they love your neighbor, and you don’t always have to necessarily like what they’re doing or like who they are as a person, but you have to love them. 

“That will negate some of the things. I truly believe that you don’t have to like everything (about someone). Like I don’t like walnuts, but I’m not going to stop you from liking them. I’m not going to say, ‘Eww, I hate walnuts,’ and throw them against the floor, but I appreciate that walnuts are here. 

“I might not like you, but as a follower of Jesus, I love you, and I love that you’re here. You’re here for some purpose in my life, because otherwise we would not cross these paths. So if people just show love, yeah love, I feel like everything will fall into place appropriately, if everyone just loved, honestly loved a little more, and appreciate the people who have crossed your path, because they did come for some purpose.”

Knowing that ‘God is love’ gives Stefanie Miles hope for the future, she said. (CS photo/Mihoko Owada)

How have you kept the faith, both your Catholic faith and your faith for our country, over the years, despite this “virus” of racism that has infected both, and what gives you hope for a better future for our Church and our country?

Stefanie Miles – “What has kept my faith (I’m not going to reveal my age, because now my students might know, now, these X amount of years), it’s solely my faith in God, because if I didn’t trust that God has a plan, if I don’t trust that God can come and bring a conversion into people’s lives, then I know I will be in bigger shambles than I am right now. I know my life is kind of a mess, but it would be a hot mess without faith in God.

“I have faith that God will bring conversion, bring the Sauls to Paul, type thing, the Simons to Peter. The miracles that he brought with a St. Augustine because he had some (issues). So, if he could do all those things, I have no doubt that God will bring what is needed. 

“Now I pray that people will accept and convert as God has willed it, but I think that’s what the virus of racism is, that people are fighting that conversion, instead of kind of going with it, and seeing how beautiful different people are, and not trying to convert them into what they want them to be or how you want the Church to look like or how (you want) the world to look like. Just accepting and loving on them, I just believe that God will take care, because God is love.” 

What is your reaction to Pope Francis elevating Washington Cardinal Wilton Gregory to the College of Cardinals, making him the first African American cardinal in the history of the Catholic Church in the United States – what does that mean to you, and what do you think it means to the nation’s Black Catholics?

Stefanie Miles – “My actual initial reaction to Pope Francis elevating Cardinal Gregory to cardinal, I had a fan girl moment. I screamed, and I shouted. Not to toot my own horn, but I did the interview with Cory Smith on Channel 4, and I’m (reacting) like, ‘AAAAHHH!’

“My mother and I, we literally had a mini celebration at 6 o’clock in the morning that Sunday. I sent a text to a friend, and I was like, ‘Is this real?’ And he was like, Yeah,’ and I screamed again. 

“And my mother was calling family members and my Aunt Sylvia, specifically, and yeah it was just a wonderful feeling, and then I instantly went (into) praising (God), and we were dancing. 

Stefanie Miles said that upon hearing the news that Pope Francis had named Washington Archbishop Wilton Gregory as a cardinal, she had a “fan girl moment,” and after shouting and dancing with her mother early that Sunday morning, they prayed that God would give him strength to fulfill his new role in the Church. (CS photo/Mihoko Owada)

“We had a mini praise and worship session, and so in essence (we were) praying, but then we instantly went into super prayer mode, because historically, I have personally witnessed when a Black man is elevated to a certain position, whether it’s within the Church or outside, they have to work extra hard. It’s  another layer of hard work that needs to be done, because you have to almost over-prove yourself or you’re challenged, because now you’re a Black man in this position, and you should solve all the problems with Black people and all the problems with people of color. So, I instantly went to prayer mode because (of) knowing that.

“Again having witnessed when a priest, a Josephite priest, he wasn’t stationed in Washington, D.C., but he was like the assistant to someone, he had already had a pre-existing condition, and that workload wore him out. I don’t know if he had lupus or sickle cell (anemia) or something like that, but his workload literally wore him out and killed him. He died. 

“It was another, Father Augustus Tolton, he was working, trying to bring monies to his church that he was going to different places within the country to raise money and speaking at events, (and he) wore himself out. So that is the reason why I instantly went into prayer mode, and I prayed. My mother and I got on our knees, and we prayed for strength and endurance for Cardinal Gregory, because we know that he’ll be put to super max turbo drive to almost like prove his Catholic-ness and his ability to be a cardinal, which he has been. 

“So I have no doubt that he is going to be successful, because I have my friends praying for him, even my non-Christian friends lifting him up in prayer, because we all know that will be a struggle.

“How (do) I feel it (this news) has affected or influenced the African American people of the Catholic Church?  I think it will encourage people to go into vocations, to become priests, to become nuns, just be religious people, to get married, that is a respectable religious state, but I feel like that would definitely encourage people to step into their faith more, step into their Catholic identity, but today (also) definitely open people’s eyes that  people of color can be in those positions of service in the clergy. 

“I read somewhere a little while back that there were only like 200, I know it was under 300 Black priests in the United States, and I thought about that. I meditated and reflected. That means I’ve come across and I have talked or shook a hand, hugged, probably about a third of them. Me, just this basic little lady from Prince George’s County, Maryland. I know a third, probably more, of the Black priests in the United States.

“Sometimes I don’t know whether I should clap my hands in celebration that I know so many priests, or is it sad that (I have met) a third (of them), which is an ample amount, when you split anything in threes. Three is a good number. Split anything into threes, that’s usually a great amount. A third of this church, that’s a few pews, a third of my family, that’s probably a great group of people. A third of my students, that’s like seven of them, that’s a great portion of my class. That’s a great portion of things, a third.

“So one-third of the Black priests? That’s just crazy, but the number, I think it was 270, and the fact I know almost close to a hundred of them, that’s mind boggling. 

“So I’m praying that with his elevation and that (when) people see someone that looks like him, because when I saw him, I was like oh I see again that list  -- my uncle, one who is a deacon actually (Deacon Lawrence Miles),  my uncle, my father, my brother, my godfathers, my cousins. Now, I see him with the hat and the ring and the vestments and the title, the name ‘the cardinal,’ I see that now, and I hope that other men would be inspired to become like Jesus, like the cardinal, so that other people can see that, and the cycle will continue to do that.”